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1994-11-13
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Date: Sun, 3 Jul 94 04:30:02 PDT
From: Advanced Amateur Radio Networking Group <tcp-group@ucsd.edu>
Errors-To: TCP-Group-Errors@UCSD.Edu
Reply-To: TCP-Group@UCSD.Edu
Precedence: Bulk
Subject: TCP-Group Digest V94 #137
To: tcp-group-digest
TCP-Group Digest Sun, 3 Jul 94 Volume 94 : Issue 137
Today's Topics:
DOS (2 msgs)
Non-TCP/IP Related Radio for Sale
Packet Switches
PBBS and DOS
Stinkin PBBS
Send Replies or notes for publication to: <TCP-Group@UCSD.Edu>.
Subscription requests to <TCP-Group-REQUEST@UCSD.Edu>.
Problems you can't solve otherwise to brian@ucsd.edu.
Archives of past issues of the TCP-Group Digest are available
(by FTP only) from UCSD.Edu in directory "mailarchives".
We trust that readers are intelligent enough to realize that all text
herein consists of personal comments and does not represent the official
policies or positions of any party. Your mileage may vary. So there.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 1994 09:07:31 -0600 (MDT)
From: Klarsen <klarsen@kazak.NMSU.Edu>
Subject: DOS
To: TCP digest <tcp-group@ucsd.edu>
One of the "GOOD IDEAS" put forth in this echo was using the
basic new motherboard of class 88386-25 that can be purchased for about
$75 today that have the cpu installed. With this we need 1 meg of ram at
about $30, a "all purpose" IO board for $15 and a floppy drive at $50
and a power supply for $40. We
get a useful computer with 640k of main ram and a small EMS for $210.00
and that ain't bad! Some folks will buy a box ($40) to house it all and
we need at least 1 keyboard and 1 monitor with card.
But don't forget the operating system. For this stuff to work we
do need something to make the computer functional. I suggest that we use
dos of about the version 3.3 which I am asking a lawyer about whether the
early dos is still protected by copyright or patent. I don't think you
can buy ver 3.3 anymore. But I have a very legal set of 3.3 sitting on
the shelf. I can put that in 1 node and still be legal. But if it goes on
another node is it still legal?
I have read guys saying Linux is the way to go and I say bull
pucky! Linux to have ANY speed must live in 8 meg of ram on a 88486-50.
This translates into a MUCH more expensive computer and I'm not sure you
can boot up in Linux without dos being present. Need to run an experiment.
I ask anyone reading this with any information about use of dos
ver 3.3 to speak up. Perhaps what we need is a way to ask for a free use
of old dos for ham only projects. Or we must add another $65 to the cost
of the operating system.
As one tag line says " Are you still using dos? Pity" I say if
you are paying for your software dos is a good deal. So is Windows ver
3.1 and a host of other software written for dos. From my point of view
going back to UNIX with it's $2,000.00 software is a real BAD idea!!
-karl
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 02 Jul 1994 12:48:42 -0400
From: "Brandon S. Allbery" <bsa@kf8nh.wariat.org>
Subject: DOS
To: tcp-group@ucsd.edu
In your message of Sat, 02 Jul 1994 09:07:31 MDT, you write:
+---------------
| I have read guys saying Linux is the way to go and I say bull
| pucky! Linux to have ANY speed must live in 8 meg of ram on a 88486-50.
+------------->8
Bull puckey right back: if you're running X and compiles, you're correct, but
you would use a stripepd system for the embedded networking system we're
talking about. You can in fact throw out almost everything; in particular,
there's no reason you can't install the network supervisor program as
/sbin/init.
++Brandon
--
Brandon S. Allbery kf8nh@44.70.4.88 bsa@kf8nh.wariat.org
Friends don't let friends load Windows NT (tnx Sun) A Linux iBCS2 developer
The Witness (the Universe's biggest practical joker) is at it again... who
else would pit the U.S. soccer team against Brazil on the Fourth of July?!
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 1994 09:01:18 -0500 (CDT)
From: ssampson@sabea-oc.af.mil (Steve Sampson)
Subject: Non-TCP/IP Related Radio for Sale
To: tcp-group@UCSD.EDU
I'm always impressed with salesmanship:
> I have 3 800 mHz Trunked HT's for sale. They have MDC/CTCSS/DTMF
> Keypad/100 memoriesetc. They are the Uniden 800FPTS...1 for $100, or 3
> for $250
And then of course the salesmans metamorphism to a buyer:
> If anyne has a radio they're willing to let me borrow/they wanna
> donate/sell (for extremly cheep!)
As they say on TV news: "Is this a great state or what!"
--
Steve
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 1994 09:18:22 -0600 (MDT)
From: Klarsen <klarsen@kazak.NMSU.Edu>
Subject: Packet Switches
To: TCP digest <tcp-group@UCSD.EDU>
Mr. Ackerman is building a monumental packet switch and is
worried about how to do it all in 1 computer. May I suggest the G8BPQ
switch? It has been tested to work at 56k bit/sec and may well run at
higher speed. The code is 110% assembly language coded and is about as
fast as you can go using the cpu speed you have.
8 ports are no problem to the switch. I don't know what method
your connecting to radio's with but the slow stuff, 9600 and below can
use kiss tnc's with the proper modems. I know how the GRAPES 56k system
works and it's easy to use with this g8bpq switch. If you need specifics
they are available from me (if I can find that paper).
So why use nos and make it a bigger problem? Use software that is
fast and stable, and also free of course.
-karl
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 1994 07:40:51 -0600 (MDT)
From: Klarsen <klarsen@kazak.NMSU.Edu>
Subject: PBBS and DOS
To: TCP digest <tcp-group@UCSD.EDU>
How quickly you forget. Everyone here is tired of the pbbs
because it has nothing for them. This is because they no longer NEED the
pbbs to reach across large areas. In 1985 things were a lot differnet!
Then I was the only guy around here with internet. I was then
wsmr-emh-85.army.mil and we could talk worldwide. But only to to other
.army.mil computers. Most of you were just discovering computers and
using 20 meters voice or cw to get anywhere.
Today I am arl.mil and have a free account on the acca computer
at New Mexico State University acca.nmsu.edu and can and do communicate
all over the world. I don't need a pbbs either.
But the rest of the ham world doesn't have a FREE Internet Account
and if they want to get from NM to France it is still 20 meters cw or on
the Wonderful PBBS Network. I can't get to Farmington, NM by any ham
method save the PBBS network or hf radio.
Since I use a packet switch from John Wise, G8BPQ and a pbbs
software from F6FBB I have a continuing need for packet contact with
these 2 hams. To do this I just use the proper packet bbs address (which
is differnet than the internet address scheme) and sure enuf it gets to
France, and a reply gets back to NM! This is amazing since the netrom
node system won't even allow a keyboard connection over about 150 miles.
So if you want to reach someone somewhere who has no internet address you
are out of luck.
This digest reaches only a small part of the ham community
because it is on the internet. It would reach a much larger ham community
if it was on the pbbs system. But reality says 1. The ham networks are so
poor that sending the digest every day would be a giant problem and 2.
not many hams would even be interested.
I have 25 regular users of my pbbs. They read a few bulletins and
send mail and recieve mail. It works. Very few have died.
-karl k5di@k5di.nm.usa.na
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Jul 1994 12:24:25 +0100
From: "Brian A. Lantz" <brian@lantz.cftnet.com>
Subject: Stinkin PBBS
To: tcp-group@ucsd.edu
On Fri, 1 Jul 1994 kz1f@RELAY.HDN.LEGENT.COM wrote:
> > Gary speaks pretty much the opinion of most people that have been around
> > packet radio for any length of time. If you really want to bore someone
> > to death, have them buy a TNC and log into a PBBS for 10 days; then call
> > the coroners office for a pickup. It's not something that gets better
> > with age.
>
> I couldn't agree more. However I think the real problem is the bulk of the
> PBBS users are running DOS (or maybe even Windoze) and use a terminal
> emulator or (terminal.exe) to log into their favorite PBBS. The machines are
> probably 286's and the memory is 640k.
> To answer Brian's question, the folks writting the 'really slick new"
> software aren't running 286's with 640k and given its such an labor of love
> to write this stuff they generally write it with the understanding that they
> too will use it. If I am reading the sentiment right one won't find any more
> DOS based xNOS's. There will be char based Lunix, or graphically based OS/2
> or maybe even Windoze based versions of tcp/ip suites that may not even
> support AX.25 mailboxes nor netrom....I know mine won't.
> Walt
>
Right on target, Walt!
A PBBS? Possibly... Like the MSYS/FBB/etc brand? N-O-P-E!
Why? If a telecom user dialed up to a LL BBS that looked, acted, and had
the feature set of the common Packet BBS, he/she would IMMEDIATELY hang
up, BURN the phone number, and head IMMEDIATELY to the nearest priest to
ask for forgiveness! ;-)
While there MAY be use for a BBS, there is NO USE for a BBS as brain
dead, ugly, hard-to-use, and feature-poor as the AVERAGE packet BBS.
Innovation? Experimentation? Leading edge? HHHmmmmmmmmmm!
/----------------------------------------------/
/ Brian A. Lantz/KO4KS /
/ /
/ Packet: KO4KS@KO4KS.#TPAFL.FL.USA.NA /
/ Internet: brian@lantz.cftnet.com /
/ { printf ("Hey Jude"); /
/ bad = !make; /
/ better = sad_song; } /
/----------------------------------------------/
------------------------------
End of TCP-Group Digest V94 #137
******************************